Great vid. I’ve restacked it with a counter example, however. My point is, it’s possible to make writing groups helpful, but it has to be done in a very professional manner
You may or may not be aware that writers conferences can be like this too.
Not all, but I've experienced one personally, and heard about a couple others where it's really just designed around specific publishers, agents and cliques of authors to profit. They get center stage and everyone in the audience is locked out unless somehow they can weasel their way inside or get genuinely discovered. (almost none ever do). They're often some of the most expensive conferences to attend because again, you the attendee are the product for them to consume. Even if you go as a vendor, it's to grow the conference's profits. Yours are often an accidental byproduct, but the people that come often aren't looking for anyone but the inner circle authors/publishers. Even the most voracious reader will pass you by. (I know from personal experience.)
Won't name names, but writers need to be careful of this too. How can you tell if this is a conference you're attending? Little tips that I have noticed:
1. The classes are always taught by the same very short list of (often trad pub) authors in a specific publisher's stable. That publisher is also baked into the conference's patronage with signage and advertising like it's a broadway playbill.
2. If they have awards, it's almost always the same small group of people who win. Outsiders sometimes slip in, but almost never win unless they're the latest new discovery (suddenly winning contracts) by the insiders.
3. There are "fan cliques" for specific authors who often are involved with the awards and want to see "their team" win no matter how bad the quality is of the product.
4. The guest panelists/speakers/faculty stick to themselves like an ersatz green room exclusion of all others like celebrities at a pop culture convention with curated interaction.
NOTE: I'm not saying people shouldn't go to conferences. You always can get SOME value out of every conference. Usually the best value is in the hallways, room parties, bars and restaurants between or after official programming. You need to make yourself available for that because as an author, you still do need to network and you might find a way inside by accident or something beneficial to your own journey that was unintended.
That said, know when to leave. Do a thorough after action report. Have a long discussion on the drive/flight home with those who came with you. Count your costs carefully. All the costs: food, gas, hotel, fees, souvenirs and ask yourself if you're really getting your money's worth. If not, enjoy the experience but walk away and find another conference in your price range and where you can grow.
I went to my first conference in 2018. It was the only one I went to for the next 5 years when I discovered some smaller local ones, but those were not one of the ones I mentioned. This little con blew my mind. It was like drinking from the firehose and accelerated my career forward significantly.
For those of us who are introverts, conferences can be painful. But when you're paying 2-3 thousand dollars to go and get next to the likes of major authors and get the chance to network, ya gotta suck up the pain and shove yourself in.
It wasn't till the last 2 years after going to comicons, pop culture cons, trade shows, and other writer (networking) conferences that I realized how different they all were and that the time between programming mattered more. It's where a lot of authors can make new friends to help one another.
I always go home exhausted and don't want to deal with the world for 2 weeks as well as come down on the high of what went on, but that's the price I choose to pay. This last Libertycon, for example, was my most successful yet, even though it was all unofficial meetings and hanging out.
Ok, then there's the rw writers' groups. That doesn't work either. 1) because of what you said, it's performative. The bookstore reading events where people want vanilla vibes because everything else is awkward. 2)The writers' critique group where you know what they're going to say before they say it because only [Gogol, or any other literary icon] knows how to write. I've literally ignored group advice and got stories published as a result. Ha.
You're right. If you can find one or two people to swap pieces with you have a better chance of getting real feedback. Other than that, I'd say you have to just read a lot. The more you read, the less doubtful you feel about what you're doing, and the more accompanied you feel.
The vast majority of them are circle jerks.
I know that one firsthand in the end I would stop posting because there was no point and then I would leave
Great vid. I’ve restacked it with a counter example, however. My point is, it’s possible to make writing groups helpful, but it has to be done in a very professional manner
You may or may not be aware that writers conferences can be like this too.
Not all, but I've experienced one personally, and heard about a couple others where it's really just designed around specific publishers, agents and cliques of authors to profit. They get center stage and everyone in the audience is locked out unless somehow they can weasel their way inside or get genuinely discovered. (almost none ever do). They're often some of the most expensive conferences to attend because again, you the attendee are the product for them to consume. Even if you go as a vendor, it's to grow the conference's profits. Yours are often an accidental byproduct, but the people that come often aren't looking for anyone but the inner circle authors/publishers. Even the most voracious reader will pass you by. (I know from personal experience.)
Won't name names, but writers need to be careful of this too. How can you tell if this is a conference you're attending? Little tips that I have noticed:
1. The classes are always taught by the same very short list of (often trad pub) authors in a specific publisher's stable. That publisher is also baked into the conference's patronage with signage and advertising like it's a broadway playbill.
2. If they have awards, it's almost always the same small group of people who win. Outsiders sometimes slip in, but almost never win unless they're the latest new discovery (suddenly winning contracts) by the insiders.
3. There are "fan cliques" for specific authors who often are involved with the awards and want to see "their team" win no matter how bad the quality is of the product.
4. The guest panelists/speakers/faculty stick to themselves like an ersatz green room exclusion of all others like celebrities at a pop culture convention with curated interaction.
NOTE: I'm not saying people shouldn't go to conferences. You always can get SOME value out of every conference. Usually the best value is in the hallways, room parties, bars and restaurants between or after official programming. You need to make yourself available for that because as an author, you still do need to network and you might find a way inside by accident or something beneficial to your own journey that was unintended.
That said, know when to leave. Do a thorough after action report. Have a long discussion on the drive/flight home with those who came with you. Count your costs carefully. All the costs: food, gas, hotel, fees, souvenirs and ask yourself if you're really getting your money's worth. If not, enjoy the experience but walk away and find another conference in your price range and where you can grow.
oh I am. I’ve been to them. I hated every second.
I went to my first conference in 2018. It was the only one I went to for the next 5 years when I discovered some smaller local ones, but those were not one of the ones I mentioned. This little con blew my mind. It was like drinking from the firehose and accelerated my career forward significantly.
For those of us who are introverts, conferences can be painful. But when you're paying 2-3 thousand dollars to go and get next to the likes of major authors and get the chance to network, ya gotta suck up the pain and shove yourself in.
It wasn't till the last 2 years after going to comicons, pop culture cons, trade shows, and other writer (networking) conferences that I realized how different they all were and that the time between programming mattered more. It's where a lot of authors can make new friends to help one another.
I always go home exhausted and don't want to deal with the world for 2 weeks as well as come down on the high of what went on, but that's the price I choose to pay. This last Libertycon, for example, was my most successful yet, even though it was all unofficial meetings and hanging out.
Ok, then there's the rw writers' groups. That doesn't work either. 1) because of what you said, it's performative. The bookstore reading events where people want vanilla vibes because everything else is awkward. 2)The writers' critique group where you know what they're going to say before they say it because only [Gogol, or any other literary icon] knows how to write. I've literally ignored group advice and got stories published as a result. Ha.
You're right. If you can find one or two people to swap pieces with you have a better chance of getting real feedback. Other than that, I'd say you have to just read a lot. The more you read, the less doubtful you feel about what you're doing, and the more accompanied you feel.